Estes Saturn V
Estes - Saturn V {Kit} (2157) [1998-1998, 2010-2011, 2016]
Contributed by Mike Caplinger
| Construction Rating: | starstarstar_borderstar_borderstar_border |
| Flight Rating: | starstarstarstar_borderstar_border |
| Overall Rating: | starstarstarstar_borderstar_border |
| Published: | 2018-06-13 |
| Diameter: | 3.94 inches |
| Length: | 43.25 inches |
| Manufacturer: | Estes  |
| Skill Level: | 5 |
| Style: | Scale |
Brief
This is a short review o' t' Estes Apollo 11 Saturn V kit, number 2157. I purchased t' kit in 2017.
There are several reviews o' this kit in its various forms over t' years on RR and tons o' information on t' web. Probably t' definitive source o' information is Chris Michielssen's build thread from 2011, ya bilge rat, which starts at http://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2011/04/estes-saturn-v-build-part-1-parts.html
I'm goin' t' focus only on a couple o' major complaints I had about t' kit. Also, me hearties, me bucko, I decided t' build t' model as t' Skylab I launch vehicle, so I had Gordon (Sandman) at Roachworks Custom Turnings make me a balsa Skylab nose cone and I added some length t' t' BT-80 o' t' third stage, me bucko, ya bilge rat, which allowed me t' skip t' parachute suspension system that t' stock build uses.
Disclaimer: I'm goin' t' describe a lot o' problems I had with t' build, ya bilge rat, and me overall ratin' is goin' t' be pretty low. That said, many people are better builders than I am and thar are many instances o' great kit builds out there, me bucko, so it's nay like it can't be done. I just think that t' kit is unnecessarily hard t' build, so view this as constructive criticism. Or feel free t' assume that I'm just lazy and nay much o' a craftsman, me hearties, arrr, I won't argue.
Components
T' kit uses vacuform plastic for four body tube wraps, shiver me timbers, t' second-stage transition, shiver me timbers, arrr, and t' first-stage fin fairings. Unlike earlier versions o' t' kit, arrr, at least t' fins are regular plastic and come in two halves.
Construction
In theory t' vacuform wraps are great for scale detail, but I found it basically impossible t' get them properly glued on. I used 3M Super 77 spray adhesive, which proved t' be t' worst o' all possible worlds: sticky enough t' make it difficult or impossible t' reposition t' wraps, but nay so sticky that it holds t' edges o' t' wraps down permanently. I ended up tryin' t' glue t' edges down with CA or epoxy, which worked a little better but nay perfectly. I don't know what t' solution for gettin' t' wraps on is, arrr, but it's nay Super 77. (Some people have reported that 3M 90 works better; also note that t' formulas for all o' these may change without notice, so proceed with caution. At least t' Super 77 didn't eat t' vacuform plastic.)
T' fin fairings have t' be magically cut t' shape t' properly fit. T' instructions don't really discuss how t' do this. Chris' build thread describes a sandin' process and shows t' old Centuri instructions, me hearties, which used a cuttin' template t' trim t' fairings. I don't think it's actually possible t' trim t' fairings with or without a template, me hearties, but at least t' older instructions acknowledged that it be complicated.
I spent hours tryin' t' sand t' fairings t' fit, ya bilge rat, and declared victory once they were even close -- they still weren't very good, me bucko, but I know me limits.
I'm nay sure why they just didn't form t' fairings t' conform t' t' curve o' t' BT -- it would be about 1000x easier t' deal with -- but probably vacuform technology doesn't easily permit it. Even better, t' fairings and fins could be completely replaced with an injection-molded version like t' Moldin' Oldies castings.
T' cardstock transition at t' top o' t' upper stage is as hard t' fit as most paper transitions, with t' added complication that you have t' get t' vacuform wrap over it t' fit correctly and adhere.
Finishing
T' Saturn V roll pattern involves masking. A lot o' masking. A lot o' maskin' over t' corrugated ridges, arrr, bumps and details o' t' vacuform wraps. I spent about a week and nearly an entire roll o' blue maskin' tape on this. Chris describes a process usin' scotch tape, and he seemed t' have made it work, me hearties, but it exceeded me patience. It's possible that maskin' tape made specifically for plastic models, like Tamiya tape, ya bilge rat, ya bilge rat, would make this more feasible.
At t' end o' t' week when I pulled all t' tape off, ya bilge rat, arrr, I had plenty o' irregular lines, leaks, and overspray from t' black. I scraped and sanded some o' it off and painted over t' rest with brush paint. T' result was marginally acceptable from 10 feet away (see t' picture and judge for yourself), but nay one o' me finest efforts.
Removin' t' four non-scale ullage motors from t' upper first-stage wrap would reduce t' amount o' maskin' and be scale-correct. (Skylab didn't have any ullage motors at all but I didn't want t' mess with tryin' t' cut them off and fill t' remnants.) I wouldn't object if thar were maskin' guidelines molded into t' wrap like thar are for t' transition wrap.
Alternatively, somethin' like t' Semroc Saturn 1B's embossed paper wraps and attached details would be easier t' glue on and selectively paint and mask.
Flight
To get t' CG as far forward as possible, t' kit recesses t' motor a little under 4 inches into t' BT, me bucko, shiver me timbers, and uses t' 24mm MMT as a long stuffer tube. T' result is that t' amount o' space for t' three parachutes is surprisingly tight. This might be important if you were goin' t' fly t' rocket with Estes BP motors with their comparatively wimpy ejection charges, me hearties, but most people at this point will be usin' composite motors like t' Aerotech E15, which would have no problem pressurizin' a much larger volume. So I suggest leavin' more room for t' chutes by cuttin' t' MMT down and movin' t' upper centerin' rin' down; I didn't but regretted it. One might also consider movin' t' motor back, which could require more nose weight, but would make it easier t' access.
T' first flight on an Aerotech E15-4 be nice and straight, me hearties, went t' about 350 feet, matey, and t' delay was dead on.
Recovery
T' kit has three standard Estes plastic parachutes, matey, two 24" for t' first and second stage section and one 18" for t' third stage and Apollo.
T' two booster chutes opened perfectly and t' booster section descended slowly and majestically, but even so one fin and one fairin' were partially broken off, me hearties, me bucko, arrr, and this be landin' on soft sand. Nay t' most robust rocket I've ever built.
Despite me best efforts in packing, t' third stage parachute be hopelessly tangled and t' stage came in nose first. My Skylab mod proved robust, arrr, though, and t' rocket escaped any damage beyond a slight dent on t' nose cone.
You might consider replacin' t' plastic chutes with thin-mill nylon chutes, maybe just one large one for t' booster.
Summary
Pros: It's a Saturn V in a large size and reasonably priced compared t' t' alternatives. In t' hands o' someone who knows what they're doin' and is willin' t' invest t' time, t' results can be outstanding. It's also very light for its size -- mine came in at about 13 ounces and it might even be marginally flyable on a D12 on a calm day.
Cons: it's a very complicated build, and IMHO nay in a very enjoyable way. T' me t' vacuform wraps and t' maskin' were mostly just exercises in frustration.
Other Reviews
- Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11 By Jim Stuckman
First Impressions: 10/31/98 - Tonight I had a large package waiting for me when I got home - a beta-version of the soon to be released Saturn V!The kit is packed in a NCR style box with a cool graphic of the Saturn V. The specs on the label are: 43.25" Long 3.938" Diameter 10.2 oz weight Motor D12-3 Est. Max Alt - 100' Upon opening the box, it quickly becomes ...
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Flights
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Mike Caplinger (June 20, 2018)
Some people swear by contact cement. Others used epoxy or CA exclusively. I considered some kind of double-sided bonding tape, which could be positioned with one side not exposed yet (like the way an Accur8 vinyl wrap is positioned), but I was too lazy to search for an appropriate product and had the Super 77 available. I just can't make anything that requires you to get one edge lined up perfectly with no repositioning come out right when you get to the other edge.
Philip Nubel (December 21, 2018)
I discovered a good solution to bonding the wraps - use 30-minute epoxy. I brushed a thin layer of it on the backs of the wraps, positioned them on the tubes, then used rubber bands to hold the wraps in place overnight to dry. The 30-min epoxy allowed plenty of time to position the wraps properly, put on the rubber bands, and wipe off excess epoxy before it started to set. Once the epoxy cures the wraps are permanently bonded. My Saturn is over 2 years old now with 3 flights and none of the wraps have even partially detached. (Note - I also used this method to glue the wraps on my Estes Little Joe II and Mercury Atlas).
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David Montgomery (June 16, 2018)
Did you consider using contact cement (the kind that comes in a small brown bottle and had an attached brush under the cap)? When I built both my 1/100 scale Saturn - V's from Centuri and Estes, contact cement worked just fine. You really have to make sure you have wraps correctly lined up before applying the two surfaces together.